• Unfortunately there are SO many guns out there that those families cannot make up for the idiots who DO hurt others.


    It is not made up that those guns are a huge problem and many people die because of them. In the United States in 2009 there were 3.0 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants. United Kingdom: 0.07 Germany: 0.2
    If this has nothing to do with the fact, that it is WAY easier to get a gun in the U.S. and that more people own them... how do you explain it then?

  • Quote from Janina

    3.0 recorded intentional homicides


    To say nothing of the people who were shot by accident, which I bet is way higher than that.

  • And just to make something clear: Of course it will be impossible to get rid of all those guns and the old fashioned traditions right now... people need to want it themselves, otherwise it will end in big chaos if the state tries to collect the weapons.
    But if they manage to do this in the future they will see it can work. Not every crime will be avoided, but the threshold to use a gun is way higher if they are treated as what they are: really dangerous and no regular household article.

  • Quote from Caribou


    So what do they need them for?


    hunting, sport and alot of people collect them


    Quote from Caribou


    Stoning women to death for adultery is part of some countries' culture. Should we just leave it that way? Or should we accept that "it's part of our culture" in and of itself is not a justification for anything, ever?


    Stoning women to death is different than guns


    Quote from Caribou


    Stupid analogy. The uses and effects are utterly different


    thats not the point, when alchool was illegelized in the 20's, did everyone magically stop using it?


    Quote from Caribou

    Obviously, if the U.S. made private ownership of guns illegal, some people would still get hold of them and some people would still murder people with them. Note that that is SOME people, as in a few. Not the thousands per year they currently have. People make a similar argument about knives, and how knife crime would surely increase if guns were harder to get hold of, but again: pretty hard to kill a cinema full of people with a handful of knives.


    some? most people would get them. they would be about as hard to get as herion or crack. how hard is it to get shit on the black market. and it is hard to kill a cinema with knives, which is why he would have uses bombs or flamethrowers. (complety legal) if someone wants to shoot up a theater, they wont be discouraged by some words on paper.

  • Quote from Wade Zabel


    hunting, sport and alot of people collect them


    So what do they need them for?


    Quote from Wade Zabel


    Stoning women to death is different than guns


    Of course it is. That's not important here though, I'm talking about the "it's right to do it because it's part of our culture" mentality. Just because something is part of your culture does not make it right.


    Quote from Wade Zabel


    thats not the point, when alchool was illegelized in the 20's, did everyone magically stop using it?


    All you're doing is restating your arguments without addressing any of mine. Get wasted has been a part of human existence since before recorded history. It's ingrained in us as a species. We simply do not need to own deadly weapons on any kind of base level, and it has been proved time and time again that the easier it is to get said weapons, the more they are used to kill innocent people.


    Quote from Wade Zabel


    some? most people would get them. they would be about as hard to get as herion or crack.


    By that logic, most people are buying heroin or crack.


    If buying guns had the same sort of social stigma as buying drugs, then most people wouldn't bother. More than that: I can't speak for any other countries, but I can testify that here in the UK, buying almost any drug besides heroin or crack is - whilst still illegal - not really considered all that big a deal. Buying a gun, however, will make an awful lot of people immediately think you are a violent criminal. (Or a farmer. Neither is considered cool. ;) )


    Quote from Wade Zabel

    and it is hard to kill a cinema with knives, which is why he would have uses bombs or flamethrowers. (complety legal) if someone wants to shoot up a theater, they wont be discouraged by some words on paper.


    So how come this sort of thing happens every couple of years or so on average in the States, but very rarely anywhere else in the Western world? Every country has dangerous nutcases. You sure everything's alright over there?

  • Quote from Caribou


    So what do they need them for?


    defense, and alot of people make their living off of hunting. i don't know how hard it is to find a job where you live, but it's not easy finding one here


    Quote from Caribou


    Of course it is. That's not important here though, I'm talking about the "it's right to do it because it's part of our culture" mentality. Just because something is part of your culture does not make it right.


    your acting like im advocating mass murder. all im saying is that its not right to take something away that has been a part of our culture for so long because of a few assholes.

    Quote from Caribou


    All you're doing is restating your arguments without addressing any of mine. Get wasted has been a part of human existence since before recorded history. It's ingrained in us as a species. We simply do not need to own deadly weapons on any kind of base level, and it has been proved time and time again that the easier it is to get said weapons, the more they are used to kill innocent people.


    murder has been a part of human existence way before drugs, and its not exactly easy to get guns in america.


    Quote from Caribou


    By that logic, most people are buying heroin or crack.


    If buying guns had the same sort of social stigma as buying drugs, then most people wouldn't bother. More than that: I can't speak for any other countries, but I can testify that here in the UK, buying almost any drug besides heroin or crack is - whilst still illegal - not really considered all that big a deal. Buying a gun, however, will make an awful lot of people immediately think you are a violent criminal. (Or a farmer. Neither is considered cool. ;)


    no, by that logic most people who WANT heroin or crack would buy heroin or crack. and buy a gun in america, and noone gives a fuck. buying any drugs (aside pot, of course) and the neighborhood puts your head on a fuckin plate. That must by why drug use in america is so low, right? When people buy crack, do they run down the street screaming, "HEY, GUESS WHAT I JUST BOUGHT!!!???" No, they dont, they keep it to themselves. Why would it be different with guns? Also, if someone wants to shoot up a building, do you thing people going, "tsk-tsk, that nutjob owns guns" will stop them?


    Quote from Caribou


    So how come this sort of thing happens every couple of years or so on average in the States, but very rarely anywhere else in the Western world? Every country has dangerous nutcases. You sure everything's alright over there?


    ok, if it happens so much, name 5 massacares where they bought their guns from a gun store (not the black market.)

    Quote from Janina

    But how can you explain it works in other countries with strict laws against guns? Less people are killed there


    Im not advocating "FREE MINIGUNS AND MISSLES FROM TOYS 'R US NO BACKGROUND CHECKS!!!", and i agree we need background checks for guns and forbid people with mental problems to buy one. Also, crime is down in america.


    also, theres this.

  • Quote from Wade Zabel

    defense,


    Riiiight :rolleyes: ...


    Quote from Wade Zabel

    all im saying is that its not right to take something away that has been a part of our culture for so long because of a few assholes.


    It's only part of our culture because it's the second admendment. An admendment, most likely added because of post English revolution paranoia.

    Quote from Wade Zabel

    murder has been a part of human existence way before drugs, and its not exactly easy to get guns in america.


    You make it seem like there is absolutley nothing we can do about murder because it's been happening since the begining of time, when there is, stricter gun control laws. And guns are pretty damn easy to get here in the States. Let's see, there's the Gun Show Loophole, or you can get them legaly if you aren't a ciminal and what not, and of course you can have someone without a criminal record get you guns then of course sell them to you (the friend) through an illegal "straw purchase" like what the murderers from the Columbine school shooting did. :whatever:


    Quote from Till

    here, clear for everyone:
    guns = something is going to die = bad


    That is faaar from "clear". :lol:

  • Quote from Wade Zabel

    defense, and alot of people make their living off of hunting. i don't know how hard it is to find a job where you live, but it's not easy finding one here


    Remember that point I made about how people who need a gun for their job could get a permit for it?


    Quote from Wade Zabel

    all im saying is that its not right to take something away that has been a part of our culture for so long because of a few assholes.


    You don't need those guns. You're not losing anything.


    Quote from Wade Zabel

    no, by that logic most people who WANT heroin or crack would buy heroin or crack.


    Virtually no one buys crack or heroin because they want it. They buy it because they NEED it. You're still not getting the difference, are you?


    Quote from Wade Zabel

    and buy a gun in america, and noone gives a fuck. buying any drugs (aside pot, of course) and the neighborhood puts your head on a fuckin plate.


    I know. That's part of my point. Those attitudes need reassessing.


    Quote from Wade Zabel

    ok, if it happens so much, name 5 massacares where they bought their guns from a gun store (not the black market.)


    Dude, the reason you even have a black market for guns is because you've got guns shops everywhere. Think about it. If those shops weren't there, would the black market be even a fraction of the size it is now? Try buying a gun on the black market in England. I guarantee you it is a hundred times harder than in the States.


    (And in fact, I'd wager a pretty hefty percentage of the guns there are on the UK black market came from the States in the first place. ;) )


    Quote from Wade Zabel

    also, theres this.


    Yes, I know. And it makes me very sad indeed. :facepalm:

  • Quote from Caribou


    Remember that point I made about how people who need a gun for their job could get a permit for it?


    but hunting is still a hobby, and not their job. oftentimes, people who have a job have to hunt to make extra money.


    Quote from Caribou


    Virtually no one buys crack or heroin because they want it. They buy it because they NEED it. You're still not getting the difference, are you?


    people arent born addicted to crack, so they buy it the first few times because they WANT it


    Quote from Caribou


    I know. That's part of my point. Those attitudes need reassessing.


    you dident read what i had after that, did you?


    Quote from Carbiou


    Dude, the reason you even have a black market for guns is because you've got guns shops everywhere. Think about it. If those shops weren't there, would the black market be even a fraction of the size it is now? Try buying a gun on the black market in England. I guarantee you it is a hundred times harder than in the States.


    no, the black market gets it from other countries

  • Quote from Wade Zabel

    people arent born addicted to crack,


    Actually, the term "Crack Baby" comes from the fact that crack addicted mothers have babies who are born with the addiction and must go through painful withdraw during their first few weeks of human life.

  • Quote from Wade Zabel


    but hunting is still a hobby, and not their job. oftentimes, people who have a job have to hunt to make extra money.


    And like I said, they'll have to deal with it. Lots of people make their living selling sex or drugs, and the government has no problem criminalising them for it. Why should guns be any different?


    Quote from Wade Zabel

    you dident read what i had after that, did you?


    Uh, yes, I did. I just didn't address it directly because this is already getting a bit quote-wall for my liking. None of it affects my point.


    Quote from Wade Zabel

    no, the black market gets it from other countries


    LOL. Always those damn foreigners, eh?

  • Quote from Caribou

    For fuck's sake. Three members of Pussy Riot got two years in jail each for basically hurting some people's feelings. :nono:


    Judge Marina Syrova convicted the women of hooliganism motivated by religious hatred, saying they had "crudely undermined social order".


    That's absolutely hilarious yet also really depressing. Jesus.

  • It's crazy.
    Lots of flooding.
    The wind is really really bad.
    My house and everything is okay.
    I'll be alright. I'll keep you guys posted.



    *UPDATE*


    Trees are falling down, half of my friends and family are losing electricity and internet...
    So far no one is hurt.